Maine nahin likha hain boss. Govindraj Ethiraj, the CNBC anchor has written this article. So, if you have anything, don’t tell me. Tell him http://datelinebombay.blogspot.com/2006/04/why-isb-might-beat-iims.html *Why ISB Might Beat The II…
Maine nahin likha hain boss.
Govindraj Ethiraj, the CNBC anchor has written this article. So, if you have anything, don't tell me. Tell him
http://datelinebombay.blogspot.com/2006/04/why-isb-might-beat-iims.html
Why ISB Might Beat The IIMs
Im pretty sure these headlines are unintentional. I saw one this evening which said, "ISB declines to reveal boy's identity." Another one, "ISB is not revealing boy's identity, yet."
Im sure you had the same thoughts I would have had. Some heinous crime has been committed and an organisation that goes by the initials of ISB is refusing to give up the accused.
The Indian School of Business is in the news. A graduate student has bagged a $233,800 (Rs 1.04 crore) job. That beats the previous record set by the IIMs.
Recently, IIM Bangalore kicked up a fuss saying they didn't want to turn their placement season into a circus and their students into animals in a temporary zoo. Makes sense I guess. ISB has picked up from there. And refuses to part with the lucky chap's identity. That makes him lucky twice over. He earns the money and gets to keep it, since the Bhais won't find him easily.
Totally Biased
For various, totally biased reasons, I would like to state that I always thought ISB would score in the longer term. Now, one does give educational institutions a little time to grow and mature, maybe a few decades, if not centuries. But this is the era of instant karma. So, even management schools are in the reckoning within 2,000 days of launch. Long term is only a year more now.
I am not an expert on B-Schools. I couldn't have made it to them or through them. I would like to say Ive found the IIMs pompous in their demeanour. Or ineffective. But that would not be fair. I've never dealt with them. But Ive met with IIM A alumni who've toured Harvard Business School as case studies. And yet they've never been considered as good enough for similar exercises by their own alma mater. And have made it a point to point it out.
I have `dealt' with the ISB though. And visited their campus at least on two occasions. Once to be part of a panel discussion. I may not exactly be a big catch but this guy who visited the ISB two months later surely was. His name was George Bush and he is the President of the United States of America.
Why It Will Pull Ahead
As an aside, the ISB, as I noted in the latest issue of ISB Insight, is understandably thrilled about Bush's visit, the first of its kind. And yet, they didn't devote a whole edition to it. Like many people would have been tempted to. So they score reasonably well on modesty.
Ive met with some of the ISB faculty as well. They seem lively and vibrant. Maybe its because they are a new team, who've just got together. Both the dean and the deputy dean are warm and friendly. And so are a whole lot of other people in the sprawling campus, a little outside Hyderabad. So, the cockles of my heart warm at the thought of an ISB graduate taking home a crore, in dollars. And yes, its possible Ive encountered him.
Why do I think the ISB will pull ahead ? For one, its not because some lucky sod got a Rs 1 crore job. Not at all. Nor is it because they were kind enough to remember me. Its simply because they work extremely hard at being what they are. Maybe because they are number two or five or whatever, the faculty and students are extremely competitive. They know they've got a while to go before they are truly in the reckoning in the hall of fame of Indian B-Schools.
But they seem to be doing a few right things. Like creating a truly international atmosphere. At the panel discussion I was part of, exchange students from Wharton (if I remember correctly) were firing questions in the classroom. They also have a Chinese B-School exchange program, among others. Students are thus exposed to a global, multi-cultural environment, in Hyderabad. ISB has affiliations with Wharton and Kellogs School of Business. This, in my mind, is a very critical requirement in the shaping of a global manager.
Quality Interaction
The other point that I can touch upon quickly is interaction and research. The ISB is trying hard to ensure its students get a well-rounded exposure to leadership, issues, academia, public policy, politicians et al. Im sure institutes like IIM Bangalore are doing well in this race. But the ISB is pretty much there too.
And then there are case studies. The ISB is yet to reach somewhere but the IIMs, who've been around for so long, have not. Their output often reads like a series of droll Planning Commission like papers. At least from what Ive seen. And heard. Totally unreadable. Having recently walked through a Harvard Business School case study in some detail and sat through a couple of classes after that, I have some idea of what it could be.
These two or three ingredients may not be sufficient for success, so to speak. And a Rs 1 crore salary slip does not mean you hoist the victory flag. Particularly since the student in question may have dollops of experience, particularly the right kind. And someone found the right fit. Oh yes, Ive met a lot of IIM grads who are mostly neutral to indifferent to their institutes. A few have gone out and thrashed them. And there must be others who absolutely adore these institutions. I've yet to meet them though. The ISB grads on the other hand seem more connected with their instutition. And even look at the ISBs shortcomings as temporary glitches rather than as a sign of decline or decay.
There must be many reasons for all of this but its interesting. Note that only four or five years have passed. Am sure the ISBians won't rest. From where they come, they would work harder. Or so I would think. In my biased way of course.
ISB has huge salaries to project this year but that in no way means its here to supercede IIMs.
Well talking about the global scenario ISB is in true sense a global B-school ,as it takes candidates with work experience only.This is common for most of the B-Schools round the world.And so ISB in the near Future could make it into the TOP 100 of the world.
But The IIMs have a niche of selecting a big percentage of students with almost no work experience and they are known World-Wide for the same.
So though the future analysts may say raking in a big moolah may in turn raise the standards of a b-school, i beleive that,
Brand "IIM" is not that easy to be overtaken!!!
First and foremost, I really don't understand how can one b-school 'beat' another.
If it is thru salaries and placements then ISB is here to supercede all Indian b-schools.
If it is in terms of the maximum people vying for a b-school, then yes IIM's will never be beaten by any other b-school since they have 1.7 lacs applying to them every year.
IIM's are a brand but then what exactly is a brand? Something that creates an association in people's mind. The general public will always connect with the IIM's more than any other b-school primarily because they have been around for a long time and have a presence pan-India. The industry is dominated by IIM grads at top positions so IIM is a brand for them.
But with more and more corporates visiting ISB and picking up their students at senior positions rest assured ISB as a brand will have maximum brand recall amongst industry stalwarts in the future...maybe 10, 20 years down the line but this is inevitable.
More than all this, I feel a b-school is better than any other only if it adds more value to a student. And more than monetary terms, it would be in terms of the experience and exposure.
And this is where I feel ISB has an edge over all other b-schools...but of course things are changing with more top institutes going in for people with work-ex and foreign exchange programs etc...but for a change the market leaders are playing catch up to the market entrant here 
rgds
ronnie
Vaise this Govindraj Ethiwhatever is just a reporter employee types:wink: So understanding his level of intellect his views should be read as such
But Yes!! The Fall of anything started and run by the Government is inevitable in the long run
You dont have to write such a long explanation for a fundamental fact of real life especially with the wrong reasoning:)
K
another ISB marketing thread........and tomorow govind ethiraj will say that bush visited ISB so it is the best B school. :crazyeye: and then day after tomorow he will say that ISB student got 1 crore salary so its the best B school......:crazyeye:
ISB PR continue ....this long struggle......it will be very long
Maine nahin likha hain boss.
Govindraj Ethiraj, the CNBC anchor has written this article. So, if you have anything, don't tell me. Tell him
http://datelinebombay.blogspot.com/2006/04/why-isb-might-beat-iims.html
Why ISB Might Beat The IIMs
Im pretty sure these headlines are unintentional. I saw one this evening which said, "ISB declines to reveal boy's identity." Another one, "ISB is not revealing boy's identity, yet."
Im sure you had the same thoughts I would have had. Some heinous crime has been committed and an organisation that goes by the initials of ISB is refusing to give up the accused.
The Indian School of Business is in the news. A graduate student has bagged a $233,800 (Rs 1.04 crore) job. That beats the previous record set by the IIMs.
Recently, IIM Bangalore kicked up a fuss saying they didn't want to turn their placement season into a circus and their students into animals in a temporary zoo. Makes sense I guess. ISB has picked up from there. And refuses to part with the lucky chap's identity. That makes him lucky twice over. He earns the money and gets to keep it, since the Bhais won't find him easily.
Totally Biased
For various, totally biased reasons, I would like to state that I always thought ISB would score in the longer term. Now, one does give educational institutions a little time to grow and mature, maybe a few decades, if not centuries. But this is the era of instant karma. So, even management schools are in the reckoning within 2,000 days of launch. Long term is only a year more now.
I am not an expert on B-Schools. I couldn't have made it to them or through them. I would like to say Ive found the IIMs pompous in their demeanour. Or ineffective. But that would not be fair. I've never dealt with them. But Ive met with IIM A alumni who've toured Harvard Business School as case studies. And yet they've never been considered as good enough for similar exercises by their own alma mater. And have made it a point to point it out.
I have `dealt' with the ISB though. And visited their campus at least on two occasions. Once to be part of a panel discussion. I may not exactly be a big catch but this guy who visited the ISB two months later surely was. His name was George Bush and he is the President of the United States of America.
Why It Will Pull Ahead
As an aside, the ISB, as I noted in the latest issue of ISB Insight, is understandably thrilled about Bush's visit, the first of its kind. And yet, they didn't devote a whole edition to it. Like many people would have been tempted to. So they score reasonably well on modesty.
Ive met with some of the ISB faculty as well. They seem lively and vibrant. Maybe its because they are a new team, who've just got together. Both the dean and the deputy dean are warm and friendly. And so are a whole lot of other people in the sprawling campus, a little outside Hyderabad. So, the cockles of my heart warm at the thought of an ISB graduate taking home a crore, in dollars. And yes, its possible Ive encountered him.
Why do I think the ISB will pull ahead ? For one, its not because some lucky sod got a Rs 1 crore job. Not at all. Nor is it because they were kind enough to remember me. Its simply because they work extremely hard at being what they are. Maybe because they are number two or five or whatever, the faculty and students are extremely competitive. They know they've got a while to go before they are truly in the reckoning in the hall of fame of Indian B-Schools.
But they seem to be doing a few right things. Like creating a truly international atmosphere. At the panel discussion I was part of, exchange students from Wharton (if I remember correctly) were firing questions in the classroom. They also have a Chinese B-School exchange program, among others. Students are thus exposed to a global, multi-cultural environment, in Hyderabad. ISB has affiliations with Wharton and Kellogs School of Business. This, in my mind, is a very critical requirement in the shaping of a global manager.
Quality Interaction
The other point that I can touch upon quickly is interaction and research. The ISB is trying hard to ensure its students get a well-rounded exposure to leadership, issues, academia, public policy, politicians et al. Im sure institutes like IIM Bangalore are doing well in this race. But the ISB is pretty much there too.
And then there are case studies. The ISB is yet to reach somewhere but the IIMs, who've been around for so long, have not. Their output often reads like a series of droll Planning Commission like papers. At least from what Ive seen. And heard. Totally unreadable. Having recently walked through a Harvard Business School case study in some detail and sat through a couple of classes after that, I have some idea of what it could be.
These two or three ingredients may not be sufficient for success, so to speak. And a Rs 1 crore salary slip does not mean you hoist the victory flag. Particularly since the student in question may have dollops of experience, particularly the right kind. And someone found the right fit. Oh yes, Ive met a lot of IIM grads who are mostly neutral to indifferent to their institutes. A few have gone out and thrashed them. And there must be others who absolutely adore these institutions. I've yet to meet them though. The ISB grads on the other hand seem more connected with their instutition. And even look at the ISBs shortcomings as temporary glitches rather than as a sign of decline or decay.
There must be many reasons for all of this but its interesting. Note that only four or five years have passed. Am sure the ISBians won't rest. From where they come, they would work harder. Or so I would think. In my biased way of course.
mbawhizz SaysI am not an expert on B-Schools. I couldn't have made it to them or through them. I would like to say Ive found the IIMs pompous in their demeanour. Or ineffective. But that would not be fair. I've never dealt with them.
Read this carefully
On a serious note, none of the arguments seems very convincing. I think we should stop comparing ISB with PGP programs of IIMs, which have high intake of freshers. Lets see how IIMs fare in the PGPX program, which is in direct competition with ISB.
Vaise this Govindraj Ethiwhatever is just a reporter employee types:wink: So understanding his level of intellect his views should be read as such
But Yes!! The Fall of anything started and run by the Government is inevitable in the long run
You dont have to write such a long explanation for a fundamental fact of real life especially with the wrong reasoning:)
K
I am amazed how you can distil so much wisdom into such few words of your posts
Arun
well
IIMs are today a brand for sure
but as one of my frnd says that IIMs are really good coz arnd 1.7 lakhs apply to them each year
then i must put in that not everyone wants to apply to the IIMs
coz not everyone is sure that he/she will get the IIMs
but with arnd 85 colleges taking CAT score
it is a compulsion to apply to the IIMs and
if at all like XLRI
CAT and IIMs had seperate forms
then we would have seen a huge decline in the no. of those
who apply to the IIMs
thogh i will till my end say IIMs are class apart than an ISB
but for sure they arent that celestial figures too
on the global scene atleast
as far as salaries are concerned
they do form a criterion to rate a b-school
but when ISB graduates at the time of joining only have huge commendable packages
then getting a crore bucks is not that gr8 a deal for them
so
i would like to conclude
that
though
IIMs (esp A,B,C) have no match in india
but they face a run for money in asia itself
where even the Beijing university is ahead of them
and ya IIMs are definitely not the only reason
why every year 1.7 lakhs write CAT
well
IIMs are today a brand for sure
but as one of my frnd says that IIMs are really good coz arnd 1.7 lakhs apply to them each year
then i must put in that not everyone wants to apply to the IIMs
coz not everyone is sure that he/she will get the IIMs
but with arnd 85 colleges taking CAT score
it is a compulsion to apply to the IIMs and
if at all like XLRI
CAT and IIMs had seperate forms
then we would have seen a huge decline in the no. of those
who apply to the IIMs
thogh i will till my end say IIMs are class apart than an ISB
but for sure they arent that celestial figures too
on the global scene atleast
as far as salaries are concerned
they do form a criterion to rate a b-school
but when ISB graduates at the time of joining only have huge commendable packages
then getting a crore bucks is not that gr8 a deal for them
so
i would like to conclude
that
though
IIMs (esp A,B,C) have no match in india
but they face a run for money in asia itself
where even the Beijing university is ahead of them
and ya IIMs are definitely not the only reason
why every year 1.7 lakhs write CAT
wouldn't entirely agree with this 😃
ISB grads have good pay packages when they join yes...but a crore bucks is a commendable feat nonetheless!
anyways i don't believe in pay packages, median salary, average salary etc etc..so just wanna veer away from all of it.
in my opinion, the greatest testimonial of the reputation of a b-school is the level at which the industry absorbs them. and this is one area wherein ISB rules over any other place in this country.
Plus an advantage of ISB is the sheer diversity of students in terms of profile and work-ex. 10 mths into a b-school and I honestly feel that its more important to have batchmates with whom you can share and learn corporate experiences rather than a brilliant mind!
But as a few have said-IIM's take a lotta freshers so a direct comparision is not of much use. However, in the years to come I see a fundamental shift in the working of b-schools:more and more of them going the ISB way tht is taking in almost entirely all work-ex guys. And when this scenario occurs, you will have places like ISB ruling the roost! Unimaginable right now, but a very strong possibility 8-10 years down the line moi feels
rgds
ronnie
ISB will beat IIMs based upon research output...Till now all the talk has been about placements...I guess mostly or all of pagalguy readers and audience are MBA wannabes and dont have much idea about research quality.
I am a doctoral student in a B school in US and from the journal rankings, I can say and show that cumulative research output of faculty in IIMs is 3rd rate. How many IIM faculty have published in HBR, Academy of Managment Journal, Management Science? You will find hardly any prof..The ones which do have these papers are from their disserations when they were phd students in US univs and have the name of these univs and not of IIMs.
Now there is a thing called tenure track which gives faculty permanent positions in univs. Based on the research output from work done at IIMs, I doubt any faculty will get tenure even in middle tier schools in US ,forget top tier schools..
None of IIMs figure in the top 50-100 rankings in terms of research productivity...
How many faculty members with Phd from IIMs are there in third tier US univs (forget top tier)?
It isnt suprising u will see faculty in IIMs with phds from lucknow, shivaji, karnataka, indore, timbaktoo universities teaching there....and not in schools abroad....
Now look at quality of research journals in resident faculty of ISB...you will realize the difference..
Why IIMs do crap research? Well, when they are paid Rs. 25k..why will anyone do top quality research...or IIMs cannot attract good faculty when asst prof salaries are less than a manager in a call center..so they consult to feed their stomach
Now this is surely not what i will agree at all
well dear frnd
According to u a phd from lucknow university is useless as compared to abroad univ.
well lemme tell u that
it is really tough to enroll and complete a phd from an indian govt. universities than to go in for a phd abroad!!!(and i myself know this as i know a few teachers at IIMs who are highly qualified--read mtech from MIT and IITs and are phds frm Lucknow University)
secondly
u say that IIM teachers dont publish papers
well for ur kind attention
just check in dude
the no. of papers published by faculty at IIM-A is huge when compared with the facluty of ISB.........plz check in some links to these papers and see for urself
then as u say IIMs will shift towards taking more work-ex people
then again
i wud like to add that
work ex is not just any kind of industry experience
it must be at some executive level
and ya
companies come to the IIMs for recruiting some freshers also so that they can
easily mould their minds according to the need of their companies
just see the trend
today big firms are recruiting plain grads as management trainees
so IIMs taking in work-ex guys only is a distant dream
and on this front
IIMs are starting the pgpx programmes
@Ronnie
hi there
well i too agree that placements are not a judging parameter solely
but mate
if at all one does an MBA
is it just to gain some knowledge
no
today people in the mid of their career go in for an MBA
just to
get promoted to bigger postions of the management
so MoolaH does matters!!!!!
anyways
i do not post to churn emotions
so srry if i hurt any sentiments
but i say and speak
what is correct
and ya
IIMs(read IIM-a,b,c)
are coming up greately on global front
and so
ISB or even other ivy league b-schools
have to perform consistently to
reach that ""MARK""
both are different schools with different intakes. ISB has to go a notch higher than IIMs. 15 lacs kiss liye le raha hai phir sirff 1 saal ka..!!!
hi
the threat that isb poses in front of iim's is clear from the fact that even though the thread is a direct challenge to iim's none of the iim grad have bothered to response though they have dedicated ppl to monitor such kind of acts by rival insti. go to any iim grad and he will tell u what he thinks of a threat from isb. Dude no one even talks about isb forget about thinking a threat ,all big 3 (A,B,C) have clocked i crore salary bfr and if that is the point then let us compare the placements of iim's and isb in totality and not on the basis of 1 job. any way just chk the profile and the fit of the job for this offer .
hi
the threat that isb poses in front of iim's is clear from the fact that even though the thread is a direct challenge to iim's none of the iim grad have bothered to response though they have dedicated ppl to monitor such kind of acts by rival insti. go to any iim grad and he will tell u what he thinks of a threat from isb. Dude no one even talks about isb forget about thinking a threat ,all big 3 (A,B,C) have clocked i crore salary bfr and if that is the point then let us compare the placements of iim's and isb in totality and not on the basis of 1 job. any way just chk the profile and the fit of the job for this offer .
its NICE TO SEE SOME ACTION ON THIS DEAD THREAD
WELL
ASHISH
THOUGH I FEEL ITS REALLY A GREAT MILE BEFORE ISB TO CROSS THE MARK MADE BY IIM-A
BUT
UR ATTITUTDE MAKES ME FEEL U THINK THAT ISB LAGS BEHIND IIM-C
LOL
THAT SURELY IS FUNNY
TODAY FRND
VARIOUS RANKINGS MAY SHOW EVEN MDI AHEAD OF IIM-C
LEAVE ASIDE ISB
ALSO DUDE
DO ALL RANKINGS SAY IIM-C IS IN THE TOP THREE IIMs SLOT
WELL THE LATEST ONE(see 4 urself)HAS A DIFFERENT THIRD IIM
AND YA
ISB IS NOT HYPED COZ OF ITS SALARY
ALONE
THE INTERNATIONAL EXPOSURE THAT THIS INSTITUTE HAS IS COMMENDABLE..
AND YA
THIS MUCH I KNOW
THAT IN A FEW YEARS ISB WILL BE IN GLOBAL TOP 50
THE MARK WHICH IS EVEN TOUGH FOR IIM-A:satisfie:
Good 2 c the IIM junta getting flustered for once...;-)
GO ISB GO...!!
hi
u prompt reply to my post proves my point no one from any IIM came forward to defend what was said about IIM's but the moment a single post comes here we have isb defnding. As about IIM-c , sir/madam u are free to give ur judgement u can rank iim-c what u want to. I dont need to defend it .
ashish
WELL
ASHISH
THOUGH I FEEL ITS REALLY A GREAT MILE BEFORE ISB TO CROSS THE MARK MADE BY IIM-A
BUT
UR ATTITUTDE MAKES ME FEEL U THINK THAT ISB LAGS BEHIND IIM-C
LOL
THAT SURELY IS FUNNY
TODAY FRND
VARIOUS RANKINGS MAY SHOW EVEN MDI AHEAD OF IIM-C
LEAVE ASIDE ISB
ALSO DUDE
DO ALL RANKINGS SAY IIM-C IS IN THE TOP THREE IIMs SLOT
WELL THE LATEST ONE(see 4 urself)HAS A DIFFERENT THIRD IIM
AND YA
ISB IS NOT HYPED COZ OF ITS SALARY
ALONE
THE INTERNATIONAL EXPOSURE THAT THIS INSTITUTE HAS IS COMMENDABLE..
AND YA
THIS MUCH I KNOW
THAT IN A FEW YEARS ISB WILL BE IN GLOBAL TOP 50
THE MARK WHICH IS EVEN TOUGH FOR IIM-A:satisfie:
Hello people!
Before this forum turns into a battlefield of who is better than whome, let me quickly put my 2 cents in!
First of all, I cannot believe that the Indian B-school situation is evolving into such a complex, almost, industry. Overall, I am happy that there are more institutions in India offering learning facilities of the first-rate excellence. The fact that we are even discussing who is better is a proof that the graduate-education field is becoming more complex.
Here in the States, people are not generally crazy about the rankings of business schools. In India though, what determines the quality of a program for its mass consumers is how high it is ranked, and whether it "beats" the others or not. I hope we too evolve into beings that evaluate an institution based on merit, rather than how good it is relatively to its competitors. That being said, rankings are important, and give us a fair snapshot of b-school market at a particular time. And we humans, attracted as we are to numbers and statistics, love to name one winner in the race.
Frankly, I am a little tired of Harvard vs. Stanford vs. Wharton here. So, I decided to move to a new, fresher debate. I strongly believe after my research of a lot of business schools around the world, ISB adds more value to a candidate than do the IIM Ahmedabad. Quite honestly, I am turned off by some aspects of the IIM. On a lighter note, even though IIMA claims to be a world-class institute, its website sucks. In all of Tech-savvy India, they could have found one good web-designer.
One fine day, when I do my MBA, I hope to seek the opportunity to do an exchange program and travel to the ISB. I am sure that was much more than 2 cents!
Now you ISB supporters dont get so high as yet
I did say in the long run the government hand will screw the IIMs... So ISB might win unless complete autonomy is given to the IIMs
But right now ISB is an enormous exercise in useless risk for the average indian who wants to get into Bschool. I am talking about the 0-4 years work ex indians... Yeah the much berated but hard working Desi Software Engineer. Mostly all those in this range that get into ISB are those who couldnt make IIM ABC. period. Or those who are rich enough and just missed out because of a bad CAT day...
Just ask ISB for exhaustive data about salaries for the type of grads Im talking about... and not those with 10 years of work ex abroad
The salary will be in the same range as that for IIM ABC. Now the IIM guys have spend less than 1/4th the money for their program and have the superior advantage of a HUGE alumni. And When it comes to other Business schools... All IIMs are Bhai BhaiSo for such an indian applicant... ISB is about 5 levels below IIM. period. Ranking or no Ranking:)
Though the fact that the IIMs have problems with Profs and infrastructure is not exactly hidden from everyone. But for the price there is no better deal in India. The key to remember is that business education plays about less than 2% part in making a manager out of someone... Its latent talent that matters... And everyone and their Dead Great Grandfather knows that all the smartest sons of choose IIMs over ISB
So atleast wait for a few more years... Let the industry see the performance of your grads and then maybe you can blow your trumpet... not yet yaar:wink:
K